Outcome Based Pricing: Dan Mall on Why Saying No Drives Agency Growth
ABOUT EPISODE
Dan Mall, designer, agency founder, and one of the most transparent voices in the creative business space, joins Adam Weil to break down what it really takes to build an agency that is both profitable and calm. Dan shares why most agencies default to hourly pricing and how that choice quietly caps confidence, revenue, and leverage. Instead of treating pricing as a calculation tied to time, he reframes it as a strategic decision rooted in value, context, and expertise.
The conversation gets practical around value based pricing and what Dan calls “pricing the moment.” He explains how the right price depends on where your business is today and what the work is worth to the client if it succeeds. Dan walks through the four modes agencies move through, where teams get stuck, and why many pricing problems are actually creativity problems. Rather than shrinking scope when budgets feel tight, he challenges agencies to design smarter offers that reflect outcomes, access, and insight, not just deliverables.
Dan also connects pricing to leadership and sustainability. He explains how client selection and boundaries shape the day to day experience of your business, and why calm is not a personality trait, it is a set of decisions. His advice is grounded in over a decade of running his own agency, publicly sharing the wins and losses, and coaching other creatives through the same transformation. For agency owners who feel stuck underpricing their work or saying yes to clients they know aren't the right fit, Dan offers a clear framework built on confidence, intentionality, and the one question every agency should ask before taking on a project: does this move us toward the business we actually want?
GUEST BIO
Dan Mall is a designer, agency founder, and business coach who helps creatives build profitable, sustainable businesses without burnout. With more than a decade of experience running and growing his own design agency, Dan has become known for his radical transparency in the creative industry. He has publicly shared his revenue highs, financial setbacks, and the non-linear reality of agency growth, earning the trust of designers who want clarity instead of hype.
Today, Dan works with agency owners who are tired of selling hours and underpricing their expertise. Through his Make More Money system, he helps designers shift toward outcome-based pricing, have more confident conversations about money, and build calmer businesses rooted in intention, confidence, and long-term sustainability.